It’s been a while since we’ve checked in with our favorite blogger-turned-reality?-television-star, so I thought I’d post an update of sorts. I haven’t written about the Dooce 
and HGTV deal in a while because, well, I’m still trying to figure it out. You guys might recall that when I was able to ask Heather Armstrong some questions about the deal in February, she told me that her deal with HGTV was to be, in fact, a TV show, and not just this vague convergence programming thing to which HGTV refers in its press release. Still, several months later, there’s been nothing but some blog posts and Twitter parties to link HGTV with Heather Armstrong, and I’ve been getting pretty bored, frankly. I’m sure they’re paying her well, but I want something more — HGTV could have hired anybody to do that stuff for them, there’s no reason to hire the Queen of Mommybloggers if all you want is an amped up online presence.
But, lately, it looks like we might be getting some more news out of the Dooce camp, if her cryptic references can be trusted. And again, I think the signs are pointing more and more towards a reality show that involves building a new house or fixing up a new house of some kind. Below is all the ephemeral evidence I could track down — please feel free to join me in speculating in the comments.
- Reference to real estate agents and brokers on Twitter, May 28, 2010.
This one is pretty unambiguous. She’s obviously doing something with real estate — the question is whether or not HGTV is somehow involved. - Reference to house that she “covets,” Twitter, September 1, 2009..
Sure, everybody trolls real estate listings every once in a while and thinks, “What if?” But do they post about in on Twitter to their 1.6 million followers? What if they had some kind of deal that was going down, something that would put them in a new house at some point in the near future, and they wanted to talk about it but the network they were working with had put a clamp on them? What about then? - Dooce Community Question Further Suggests The Armstrongs Are Shopping For A New House.
About two months ago, Heather posted this question in the Dooce Community regarding choosing a view over a yard. Though this could be hypothetical (of course), Heather posted a follow-up question that makes that unlikely: “But what if this view is better than anything else you could find where you live, and there’s a huge, huge deck.” When I’m shopping for houses that are not connected to reality shows, I generally wait to find the one that has both the view and the yard, rather than settling on one that is better than anything else I can currently find — this makes me think that this housing purchase was something that had to happen, and had to happen on a certain schedule, rather than the result of just deciding to move to a new house. - Reference to “chaos” in recent post. Then, the latest reference to the chaos that’s currently going on in the lives of the Armstrongs. Why the rush? Why the sudden desire to buy a house, if it doesn’t have some connection to HGTV? At any rate, Dooce claims that the “he next seven to fourteen days of our personal lives are going to get a little crazy, and I may feature a guest blog or two from one of my favorite writers. But I will still be here giving you updates and filling you in on everything when I’ve been given the green light.” Even if you’re moving and waiting to tell the Internet for your personal privacy, you don’t need somebody else to “give you the green light” to start talking about it. You start talking about it when you feel it’s safe to do so.
Keywords: adorable in person , sweet tea , suck it
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I’m convinced it’s a TV show that comes out either this fall or after Christmas (probably the latter, since the lag between filming and airing for the Real Housewives seems to be around 5-6 months, so I’m guessing this is the same). I think the only real variable is whether they’re staying in Utah or moving to LA or NY.
I’m thinking they’re staying in Utah, because of the second comment in #3 above — “anything you can find where you live.” But this might also just be wishful thinking, because I don’t know if Los Angeles can handle me, Dooce, and Gottlieb in the same city limits.
NYC has some killer views, I mean really killer views.
People keep talking about New York, but you know they don’t make enough money to live really WELL in Manhattan. I mean, of course we don’t know the exact numbers, and who knows what HGTV is paying, but to live really well with two kids in NYC is in the multiples of millions per year. You can live for much less than that, of course, but it would be a major downgrade compared to what they’re used to, and I don’t really see that happening. I think LA would be more likely if it were between those two, but I tend to think they’re staying in Utah.
Definitely a house – and a show, behind-the-scenes website/blog and cross-promotion with her own blog to go with said house (perhaps with a coffee table book thrown in at the end). I don’t see them moving out of Utah, either, but will it be out of Salt Lake City, like to the desert where her mother’s cabin is? But would she move Leta away from her friends and school?
I’m sure it’ll be a success, no matter what she ends up doing, because the die-hards will follow her to the ends of the earth and celebrate every decision she makes. I’ve gotten bored with her, more than anything, because she’s become this person who I can barely relate to at all. I’m not begrudging her the success she’s garnered, but to me, it’s changed her. And like most up-and-coming ‘stars’, she’s been moving away from what put her on the map in the first place – in her case, her blog.
But back to the question – yes, a house. I don’t see it being a brand, new house, because she tends to like things with a unique personality, so an older home they’ll reno. Should be interesting.
I say a show and a house they will renovate as well. No clue who’s paying for the house. Does HGTV actually pay for the homes they feature? If so where do I sign up!?
If it was me with 2 kids and 2 dogs I’d go for the yard vs. the view. Especially with her one dog being really active.
I would not be surprised to see her in LA or New York either one. She’s spent a lot of time in New York lately. Also she does a lot of complaining about the weather in Utah. But her family is there and Leta is settled there so it’s hard to say on that end.
I have to agree that her blog has gotten stagnant. I read her every day and when I first started reading her it was 2 years ago before our fire and her posts were longer and more interesting. Now they’re just not. Some are fun to read (the chicken posts are funny) but she seems to be rushing it and not putting her self in to it like she used to. I love animals and all but no one is offering to pay me a fortune for a daily picture of my 4 dogs!! Same with Marlo. She’s a gorgeous baby with TONS of personality no doubt but most of us have kids just as gorgeous and spunky. *shrug*
I think it’s more difficult for her to blog personally now than it used to be. There are so many considerations that have nothing to do with her own voice, and then there are the expectations of her audience, many of whom have been with her for almost a decade. I would guess it’s hard to write about your life when it’s changed so much that you’re not sure if your original audience can relate anymore. To completely switch things up might put those readers in jeopardy.
You’re theories are really interesting, and I can see how you might come to these conclusions.
However, HGTV is not involved in my personal chaos in any way. They are not buying me a new house or helping me renovate one. Also, I’ve made it pretty clear to HGTV that I don’t want to be involved in any sort of reality show.
Since my website is pretty much a detailed journal of my life I wanted to be upfront with my readers. There is a lot going on right now, and it would feel dishonest to pretend that everything is normal when it isn’t. But for legal reasons that have nothing to do with HGTV, I can’t talk about it yet. And being vague is the only way I can convey that things are crazy.
I appreciate your interest, though! And if it weren’t for the fact that my kids have amazing relationships with their cousins and grandparents, we’d be back in LA for sure. Come on! It’s plenty big enough for the both of us. I’d have you over for sweet tea first thing.
*falls dead onto floor*
Wait, I’m getting up off the floor long enough to say: YAY that there’s no reality show. Because while I generally try not to tell people stuff is bad for their kids, I think being on a reality show is…well, bad for your kids.
Okay, I’m back on the floor.
I’m glad there’s no reality show, too. That’s a relief. But you think you’re on the floor, how do you think I felt when I got an email that a comment from Dooce was waiting in the queue? OMG. Is that a sign of the apocalypse?
I don’t know, but I think I’m going to stock up on Diet Coke just in case. I don’t want to be caught in an apocalypse without enough pop.
And she’s hypothetically inviting you over for sweet tea! Which I don’t believe for a minute she has ever even tasted, judging by her rail-like slimness. But don’t fall for her treacherous ways – it’s even more addictive than Diet Coke, if that’s possible.
What the what?! Thanks for commenting here, Heather. No reality show, OK, interesting! This just leads me to so many more questions, though. Are you going to be on air talent at some point? I tend to assume you will be, both based on the fact that in February it seemed like there would be a show involved and because you were invited to that “talent” party in NYC.
I appreciate that the changes in your life have made it more difficult to be as forthcoming with every topic as you’d like to be. I would guess that there will be some growing pains as your readership adjusts to changes in the level of disclosure you can provide as you work with more brands. But so far, I know I’m dying to know what you’re up to.
And yes, I’ll be taking you up on the sweet tea offer if you end up in LA, but don’t let that influence your decision.
This comment gave me a much needed smile!
The Mormonism archives are amusing, but really, she doth protest too much. The bland writing style springs from her essentially Mormon soul, which cries out, via a profusion of capital letters, that no she really isn’t Mormon, she swears she’s not! It seems they have made their peace with Utah, despite the whining, so yeah, I think they’ll be staying.
Something interesting about Dooce, though, is that she comes off really well on television. So, reality show or not, I hope she does have a presence on some show or another, because honestly — and I mean this, no matter what the personal clashings Heather and I may have had — she is VERY likable in person, and on the screen. And for her, that diversity would be a wise move, because it would work well. She’s down-to-earth, approachable and funny in the flesh, so why not? It could only help her, provided it’s done right.
I found her very likable in person. I also thought her keynote at Mom 2.0 was good, and I was surprised how likable and down to earth she was. I haven’t seen much of her on TV, though, so I’m not sure how that would go. I think it really depends on the format — if you get somebody interviewing her that doesn’t “get” her sense of humor, it can go badly. I think Oprah and Bonnie Hunt were not particularly well suited to her. She needs somebody who understands that she’s being flippant, etc. Those two were totally lost.
In fairness, if Oprah “gets” you…well, it’s not necessarily a compliment.
And although I’d never heard of that Bonnie Hunt chick before I saw the Dooce clip, I’ve decided she’s a boob, because anyone who invites someone on her show to each someone else to put on a diaper by doing it on a doll is a boob. It’s a fact.
absolutely. Oprah “gets” Jenny McCarthy and why you shouldn’t vaccinate your children. So, you know, who wants to be “gotten” by Oprah?
She looks and sounds great on TV, I agree. It’s the wholesomeness, the Donny Osmond appeal. I really think she would be a more interesting writer too if she could just get past the central radical act of her life of leaving the “official” Mormon church, because she really embraces that culture more than she opposes it, despite occasional mock horror about things like drinking sprite at Mormon weddings. I mean, just admit that’s your strength and go with it.
This one post:
http://www.dooce.com/archives/daily/12_18_2001.html
in which she talks about growing up Mormon in a Baptist, Mormon-hating part of the South, needs editing but reads like it is written by a real person. You don’t forget something like being hosed by Baptists in the game of “Soak the Sinner” just because you’re Mormon.
All of her archives from that era are fabulous. She wrote about motherhood and life in a real, unaffected way before the internet went KABOOM! and you couldn’t write about things like CIO or weaning early without getting your face ripped off.
A perfect storm of events — the expansion of blogs to be read by everyday folk, including the AOL OMG LOL!!!1!!! crew, her fame and increasing exposure and many other small factors contributed to making the raw, real tone of those early posts hard to maintain. This, honestly, is one reason why I have zero desire to be anything more than a middle-of-the-road blogger. Things change when you reach that level of notoriety, and I’m not sure it’s all that fun.
I wonder if there is a way to maintain it, though, post-PW and post-Dooce. They are the first ones so they are kind of like the guinea pigs, but assuming the brand partnerships that they make work out for them, it might be that, as time goes on, more and more brands will be willing to partner with bloggers and sign off on the whole thing, without any kind of need to alter the online identity or tone things down. I don’t know that she has to do these things, by the way, it’s just what I imagine would happen naturally as a result of having a third party brand so closely associated with yours — I think you would naturally start making different decisions.
Though in this case, I kind of like the decisions that this brand might be making her make, like commenting on my blog — because I am really suspecting there’s some kind of PR person involved who suggested it. Maybe not. It could be the new assistant. Or, maybe Heather just really likes me now. [chuckle, cough.]
I’m not represented by any PR person or organization, I just saw the referral in my logs, came over to read the theories and thought I’d give some insight.
I have it written in my HGTV contract that they have no control over my website, my voice, or anything that I choose to write about. I know that a lot of people think that my voice has changed over the years, and I won’t deny that it hasn’t. But it has a lot less to do with exposure or my affiliation with any particular brand and a lot more to do with growing up. It’s having all these years of experience under my belt and adapting to what makes me happy and fulfilled.
I’m never writing in fear of the criticism because it has all been said about me. You can’t say anything worse than what’s already been said. When Leta was experiencing gross motor delays someone publicly accused me of suffering from Munchausen by proxy. So, people can make fun of my chin and the fact that my daughter eats chicken nuggets, I’ve heard and seen much worse.
But sometimes I will pause knowing that my father and my mother are reading what I’m writing, and my relationship with them is more important than my right to say something outrageous.
The ultimate goal with HGTV is to develop something on air. But having worked with television before, and now being very much involved with the team over there, it takes time. Lots of time. It’s glacial.
And of course I like you, Anna. You were adorable in person.
So nobody is going to tell anyone to suck it?
Because it’s summer vacation and the kids are home, so I can’t wait all day by the computer for someone to tell someone to suck it. Let’s move this thing along, people.
I think that’s fair, and a glance at my own archives says basically the same thing. In my case, I was more “raw” but I was also, um, quite miserable.
But then I also think, Jesus, I don’t blog for a week, no one cares. You don’t blog for a day, people lose their shit. I think, though, that it’s got to be hard to write, to some degree, like no one is reading when it’s undeniable that jillions are. I can pretend no one’s reading because sometimes, well, it IS just my dad.
Is this the part where we tell each other to suck it, or will that come later? (I KID, for I’ve already sucked it as hard as I could and I’m TIRED.)
(Too soon?)
Interesting. I wouldn’t blame you if you did have a PR person, though. I think that every email or comment you get would be a potential PR situation at this point. I have like 1/1000th of the email and other google alert stuff that you do, and I still have to consult Kerry regularly to make sure that I don’t do something totally egregious. Though, sometimes I do anyway. It’s kind of my brand.
I actually wasn’t suggesting that you were being censored by HGTV explicitly, I was more trying to put myself in your shoes and see how that could come into your writing voice even without you noticing it. My example would be how I can see myself thinking, “Oh, it would be easier to get XYZ brand to sign on for an ad if I didn’t do this,” and though I never actually act on it, I would guess that it does enter my writing voice on occasion.
But I think the biggest thing in your case probably is time passing.
It’s always interesting to me when people accuse big bloggers of “not being themselves” once they secure a large audience. As Heather says, there’s definitely a growing-up factor (i.e., internal change), but there’s also the fact that the medium of blogging, and indeed the blogging community, have also grown up–or if not “grown up” then at least “grown bigger”–and that changes us and the sites we read (and why we read them) as well (i.e., external change).
Back when I started following Heather in 2002, the kind of blogging she was doing just WASN’T being done elsewhere, or at least not anywhere near on the scale it’s being done now, so she was pretty much my single resource for a look at “real” pregnancy and motherhood, and that’s what got me hooked. But that was EIGHT YEARS AGO. And as much as she has grown in that period, so have I, and so has blogging. If I need to read about “real” anything, there are thousands and thousands of sources now, so I don’t necessarily go to her as a default because now there are people out there with whom I identify more. At this point, though, I’m invested in her and her family as people, not as vehicles for information about “real” life, and so for me it hasn’t been that hard to reconcile that the material that made her famous isn’t necessarily the material that takes center stage on her blog anymore, i.e., that she’s famous for things she no longer writes about (e.g., depression).
But instead of wanting and expecting her and her site to stay the same forever (because “the same” was GREAT), I now read her not as a mommyblogger but as THE mommyblogger. I now read to see the effect of fame on her life, not in spite of it. To me, she’s blazing a path as a famous blogger the same way she blazed the path of living and mothering in public on the internet.
I just have to say thank you for telling us why you’ve toned it down some and changed your style up a bit. I read you for years until I took a break after our house fire and when I started reading again there just wasn’t “as much” there. I still read every day but it takes less time now! LOL I find it really interesting to read why you’ve changed things up a bit so thank you for sharing that!
I have to give MAJOR kudos to Heather here. In all the years I’ve been a reader of hers…and at times a critic…I’ve rarely seen her engage with people outside of her own blog like this. And, in truth, it always annoyed me that she wouldn’t. People wonder about stuff…they disagree or just get plain annoyed sometimes by a tone or different view. If you “live” off of interacting with people, which she does, of course, then you really must interact with them even if it is sometimes difficult or confrontational. It makes her so much more likeable. And, truly, reminds me of why I started reading her years ago when I had just had a new baby and felt I was dying from lack of sleep and no support from anyone! I’m always torn about how I feel about Heather’s success. I loved the old Heather…that I could relate to much more. This new version is so much more “pop culture” and commercial.
I must admit I am very relieved they are staying SLC…and that she is because of the reasons she gave. Her family. It shows that the fame and money hasn’t gotten to her completely yet, lol. Those people can ruin lives (those television and media types). I really would hate to see that happen to the Armstrongs.
Nice job Heather of being engaging and kind. That made me smile. Congrats on the dream house. We hope to build ours one day…after our kids are grown and we can pay cash for it, lol (conservative, Dave Ramsey supporter here : ).
Oh, and kudos to Anna for really bridging a gap between the business and gossipy side of the Net. You are so much more rational and calm than anyone else. Makes it so much less antagonist and crazeeee!
Speculating is half the fun, isn’t it? And of course, the only way to pass time until whatever’s really happening can be made public. If it were me I’d be contorting myself into a pretzel trying to keep the secret. Dollars to donuts its something happy & successful for the Armstrongs. Heather’s got the personality and chutzpah to carry off more than blog writing, to be sure. I’m kind of excited to find out what it is.
Now I’ll be wondering if you guessed something right, and in order to throw you off the trail Heather’s had to come and deny it…just because my mind really does work that way.
They might want more buzz around HGTV, too. Her commenting on the post could send more traffic to her posts on HGTV’s site, which I think they are trying to do already, based on the fact that they are in summary in the RSS feed right now, instead of full feed like they were a while ago. They might want more conversation taking place over there.
Well, Anna, it looks like you’ve made a new friend.
some people just like to hear themselves talk. i would take a yard and a view, if i had my choice.
That’s not dooce! The first word is grammatically incorrect and the tone sounds nothing like her.
I call BS.
Oh here we go. That should help keep things civil.
Then it’s somebody from Dooce’s town using a Mac who is posing as her. Maybe it’s Chuck?
Then I stand corrected.
For what it’s worth, I think she’s moving to NY. Maybe for only a few months/years.
Actually, I can’t believe I spend this much time thinking about this.
SHIT! And I hate that grammatical mistake. Thanks for pointing it out, DANA. You can go ahead and suck it.
HAH! How can there be any doubt at this point?
Fine, I’ll suck it if you eat it!
Ok, I’m totally kidding–I’m just bored. Forgive. Good luck in whatever you do.
YOU’RE going to do great. (That, btw, is the right say to use it.
And by say, I mean way.
Obvs.
Love it. And she cursed too, right here on you’re blog. Touche!
Frankly, I would have watched a reality show starring Dooce. I don’t really read her regularly (instead I sporadically “check in” because she is a celebrity of sorts, after all) I am not a Hater, I just have not ever connected with her story or her blog, but I think she is entertaining in person/on TV. I would have watched a show featuring her.
In regard to her voice “changing” over the years, I would expect that any blogger’s voice would change as such – we are people, we are human, we are dynamic. Period. Our lives progress and with that our voice and perspective WILL change. Good grief, I would hope so! And with what Dooce has experienced on a personal and public level, we should expect differences in her posting. I think to criticize her on that front is unfair.
I agree. I’m not sure that all of her audience does, though. I think many of them resent her success at times. It is probably why she has been defensive in the past toward criticism — it’s often about things that really, she shouldn’t have to defend. People change, become successful, beat depression (or make it manageable), and become happier. But since she’s a blogger, there may be people who identified with how she used to be who haven’t changed as much.
I will be in Utah this week, and I am absolutely certain, based on pictures and Big Love (HBO being completely accurate and representative of an entire state and population), that I will never, ever leave. It’s stunning. And, they have mountains there.
Also, I have never in my life had sweet tea. But only because the first time I got drunk was on long island ice tea and I threw up in my mom’s glove compartment. So I stereotype all tea as such.
But, I’m sure it’s lovely.
And, yeah, I say stay in Utah. It’s so potentially-probably pretty there.
Not to be all lime-popsicle-esque, but you threw up in the glove compartment?
That’s funny. And also kind of impressive. I mean, that would be a tough angle to hit, I would think.
lime-popsicle-esque?
It’s the term somebody came up with for when there’s a comment that ignores the most important part of your post and just talks about the “lime popsicle” you mention at the end.
It was a tough angle. It was a PT Cruiser. And, it was spaghetti. It never smelled the same when the heat was running.
SOMEONE MAKE ME STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.
You mean there are people old enough to get drunk and throw up in a PT CRUISER?
Shit. I’m old.
I hope all of you guys who are going to the EVO conference are still going to BlogHer.
Long Island Iced Tea can definitely bite you in the ass.
Yes, I will be at both, let’s do lunch or dinner!
It’s a date. If I ever get time off from the serenity suite. Which, having me in there? how is that not making people crack up, btw?
Man, I love this.
Dooce is meeting with a “few hundred lawyers.” Curious.
http://dooce.com/2010/06/21/real-cringe
This is sounding like some kind of legal conference. What else would attract that many lawyers to one location?
OJ Simpson is the only thing I can think of. And now we have come full circle.
Maybe she’s starting an ad network. I hear those use a lot of lawyers.
Well, or bloggers posing as lawyers, is what I have heard.
Interesting. She would be smart to sell her own ads, if she has the time.
“A few hundred” could theoretically mean as many as two or three. Because Heather’s NEVER been prone to exaggeration for comic effect…
Ohhh! So this is where to get the inside scoop? Sweet!
Regardless of what this all turns out to be I am excited because it not only represents a big deal step for bloggers making it big, but also because I actually like Dooce’s style and wouldn’t mind an inside look at all that jazz.
As for me, I bet on some kind of an ambush room make-over thingie. You are just hanging around in your sweats trying to choose between paint chips and BAM! Dooce is on your doorstep armed with 20 Etsy artists and the house starts a rockin’. It would be cool and horrifying all at once…I would totally watch that even though I pretty much hate reality shows…
As for now, here I be waiting with bated breath….(is that right? “bated?” it is definitely not “baited”…)
Is this the house with the killer views? http://www.tylergourley.com/covehouse/
Doesn’t need renovating… I guess I’m not fond of the cryptic little updates that often make things seem like a bigger deal than they really are. If they’re buying this awesome house, then fab! It seems pretty obvious at this point they can afford to live where they want. But why be cryptic? That’s just annoying.
That’s the one she posted a link to about “coveting,” but I don’t know if that’s the one with the killer views.
i am not trying to be mean but maybe we are reading too much into it dooce might have a lot going on but you know she doesnt handle stress well. A few doctor appointments or some travel plans throw her into a tizzy. Not that there is anything wrong with that. So what could be chaos to her could be mundane to others. It doesnt have to be a big major life change or television show.
i love that heather came and responded directly to you about all of this and even invited you to share some sweet tea!
i think, truthfully, that she’s strong-armed jon into chickens, but the neighbors (i’m one of them!) are having none of it even though, yes, they’re allowed and so she’s getting the laws changed with the gaggle of lawyers. (KIDDING).
look, i’m just glad she doesn’t mind when i wander the neighborhood naked with my dogs off leash. i’m grateful to read that she’s not leaving utah. we need all the beautiful crazy we can get.
I didn’t think it was possible to like Dooce more than I already did. The “suck it” comment made me want to write her name with little hearts instead of oo, though.
What I want to know is how high on the hog you people are living. Holy Swiss bank account, Batman! Many millions to live well in NYC with two kids? Based on firsthand budgeting, I can tell you that you can do it easily for a hair over a million a year.
Well, I meant if they wanted to replicate the kind of lifestyle they have in Utah. Not so much if it’s possible to do it for yes. But see, even so it’s a million!
I promise I’m just joking (a little). I’ve priced the New York life recently, but haven’t lived it just yet. It’s steep, but not banker-money steep like everyone thinks. I grew up in LA and SF, and the lifestyles aren’t totally dissimilar if you want to live in the midst of the action.
If she leaves Utah she’s going to start making fun of Jews instead of Mormons and that is NOT going to go over very well.
I think she’s staying in Utah. I think she is getting a new house and I don’t think there will actually be a reality TV show, I just can’t see her doing it.
If she leaves Utah for NY.
That’s what I meant to say.
what or who is a dooce? I have no idea. Someone on TV? That could explain why I don’t know, I rarely watch TV.
I think I figured it out. I think they’re going to make a movie about her. Like they are doing with PW. That would definitely require an army of lawyers. Doesn’t answer the questions about the house but that’s my guess…
Bah, I don’t like drinks with real sugar in them. I’d be going over to spy, naturally. Hypothetically. Did I say that outloud?
I would totally be spying too. Not because she’s famous but because what she writes/has written is so damn interesting and crazy I would love a glimpse in to that!! I’m a huge people watcher and I think her days would be fantastic on that scope… Especially if she was taking care of chickens cuz I HATE chickens! Nasty things!! I’m geographically close enough to go there and spy. LOL (BTW, that’s not meant to be a creepy threat so hopefully it doesn’t come across that way! It’s like a 6 hour drive and I wouldn’t have anywhere to stay so it’s probable it won’t happen)